Post by Tik doesnt log in on Jan 6, 2013 23:15:08 GMT -5
I completely support this.
Hidden's a new site- some changes are inevitable, varn.
And it makes /sense/ to vary things. Like Lou said, obviously a human isn't as powerful as an immortal watcher, or a deity. A deity by nature has powers beyond human comprehension, /that's what makes them a deity/.
If people are choosing races by power instead of plots, then IMO, they're playing wrong. RP is not about being the biggest badass and beating people down, it's about plots and character development and writing and lots of other wonderful things. Anyone who'd choose based on that is missing the point. RP is not an RPG, where your focus is just level grinding to high ranks!
I like the idea of caps, though I'd like if they weren't too 'distant'. For instance, maybe deities/watchers/things of those strength get capped at S, anything magical at A, and humans get capped at B? I wouldn't wanna see humans wayyy restricted, since it seems to me that some of the magical races wouldn't be /that/ much stronger than a human. for that matter, would sorcs get a higher cap than regular humans, on the assumption that their magical core gives them somewhat more stamina or whatever than a regular human? I'd like to see anything with innate magical or supernatural abilities have a higher cap than just plain wakers/magi.
Post by mildred bagley-aldaine on Jan 6, 2013 23:41:57 GMT -5
The way that I've been posting is that I buy Mildred an asset after she begins to gain it IC, or something to that effect.
Anyway, the ideas:
1. I don't like 'free of charge' anything. I feel like if a Deity wants to be as strong as the Deity that they once were, it should be done through posting and plotting and regaining their strength IC, gaining followers or whatever. Even if it's just getting enough money to buy Herd V, either way, it should be worked for. I feel like the only thing the cap would do is penalize people who really are posting and working their way up. After all, it's not like anyone's really running around posting one line posts one after another in every board or anything (as far as I know, anyway, I've been out for a couple days).
2. Don't like this either because it just kind of makes it too easy. I don't know. I like it better than 1, but I think that the characters here are too far varied to really use this method effectively. Magicians/Sorcerers will live longer, get stronger, whatever, more than other Wakers. Stuff like that. It really depends on the character, and I doubt you have the time to plan out a scaling system for each character that's made.
3. ^
4. Hard cap is harsh, too, for anyone but Sleepers and regular Wakers. Power isn't everything but part of the fun in roleplaying is filling them with enough backstory and plot and development that they can become godlike, TTGL style. On the other hand, considering how cheap favors are, that may honestly not even be a problem.
I think, anyway, that if you ever needed to moderate something like a Rank S vs Rank S fight between GOD OF DEATH BBQ and NECROPHILIAC BUSTER it would just, you know, come down to the roleplaying, how actually strong someone is, what they are, whatever. I don't really think it would be too big of an issue and if it was it'd be easily fixed... but I don't know, I guess that might be optimistic. I haven't seen a RP IC power struggle since like, 2007 because everyone I rp with now is mature (old qq).
You could just have different ranking systems entirely for different races.
and i assume there could be race bans if one race gets too saturated, and anyone who abuses the system gets banned. this is how it works, right?
also i assume rank doesn't always mean "bam, i win b/c i'm a higher rank than you"?
I don't think wakers will ever be banned (or sleepers, but I really doubt that'll ever become overpopulated), otherwise I'll introduce bans if things are getting silly. Anyone that abuses the system is, quite frankly, a power player, so there ya go.
Nothing in the site's system should really decide a battle outcome. Ranks are meant to generally measure how good a character is at what they do. To an extent, it can be used as a measure of themselves against what other people do, but that gets kinda messy. How do you really compare a telepath to a spell-slinger in a fight? At higher ranks, I'm sure they've got both plenty of tricks up their sleeve, so the thread (or the plot) decides the victor.
Besides, the difference between S and A and probably even B, assuming all are combat-centric characters, is pretty negligible for a simple fight. A better way to compare powers is to see not who's best at fighting but who's best at creating world peace. It'd be impossible for B, unsustainable for A, and downright plausible (plus plausibly disturbing) for S. Who's best at beating shit up? Well, there's kinda a limit for beating shit up. Either you can or you can't. Who beats shit up better is just a pissing contest.
If a Rank S Waker and a Rank S Deity are more or less equal why does this scenario we are talking about require the use of a favor?
My point was that favorable circumstances are represented by the favor system, thus the bolding for emphasis. Rank hasn't that much to do with it.
If you really wanted to use rank alone to decide the outcome of a battle though, equal ranks means the fight ends in a standstill, so you could negotiate a favor expenditure for a win all the same. That's a battle inside a complete vacuum though. In an actual thread, there's so many factors--or there should be for the fight to be interesting--that using rank as a basis for deciding who wins a fight is something best left to fanboys arguing over steel cage match ups.
Anyway, gonna sleep on this stuff. Will come back tomorrow with thoughts and probably revised ideas.
Post by THE POWERS THAT BE on Jan 7, 2013 0:23:57 GMT -5
Okay, before I sleep, throwing an additional idea out there. It might suck because I'm too tired to be sentient.
4) The addition of a new asset, Combat Prowess or some better name that I'll think about later. It would represent how experienced and skilled a character is at combat. (Zero tiers would still mean that the character is human/sleeper average or even well above average if they're fit. This asset would specifically mean actual combat, and mostly supernatural sorts of encounters too.) Existing characters would probably get up to two tiers of it for free, a third tier for a discounted sum (debt option available), and I'd bump up the char creation allowance to accomodate. In this case, rank would specifically represent the character's skill/comfort with their own powers. If they had a combat-useful power (fire manipulation/creation for example) but no combat prowess, they'd be potentially powerful but simply untrained/unversed in the combat application of their powers.
...
...Actually I am not too sure how that asset would address the original problem of some races being inherently more OP. I think it would help temper any future battle drama though.
Post by varnock acerbi on Jan 7, 2013 0:33:28 GMT -5
Well I like the sound of Combat Prowess as a thing even if it does mean more money spent on buying things. I can't complain much if Varn won't be terribly affected by any of the changes either. I suppose I'll wait and see what ends up happening. Worst case scenario being Varn loses the ability to rank up any further. Not a huge loss, if a bit disappointing.
Post by marlowe wiedmer on Jan 7, 2013 2:40:58 GMT -5
I, for one, don't think a combat prowess asset is necessary. Factors and all, I feel like it'd get abused with the whole "Dude, I'm a higher CP than you. /THROWS COUNTLESS HADOUKENS" Like it exacerbates the problem that this thread is partly meant to settle. Personally, assets aren't the point of this forum. Plots and Charrie development, yo.
This thread is kind of a headache. I'm not a "majority vote, disregard the minority"-type of guy, but with #1 being the choice of many, I think it's the right one. In this case, anyway.
Speaking for myself, Hidden is a fun game for me but not a priority in my life (how sweet would it be if it was 8DD). It's kind of groan-inducing when just because I can't post as much as another person on-site, I'm less influential. Since post-count is associated with money here, I think that statement applies and isn't totally gratuitous. It should be quality over quantity, I believe. If asset-mining is fun for you, cool cool cool. Just have some awareness and realism, is all.
final point: S-ranked Human vs. S-ranked FREAKING GOD IS NOT EVEN A CONTEST OMG. In creating a good story, it's good to have some limits for your characters. Racial differences are essentially that. Anecdote: Seraphiel can get shot in the chest and head. Marlowe does, he dies.
EDIT: to clarify on "final point," just because a S-rank combat-oriented waker wouldn't really match to a combat-oriented S-rank Deity doesn't mean that the waker wouldn't stand a chance. Plus, with certain factors and assets, it could very well match up equally. But on average, deity would win because it has fuggin omnipotent deific powers, gosh.
Post by JANUS VASILOU on Jan 7, 2013 3:09:12 GMT -5
TIK LEARN HOW TO LOGIN GOSH
" I feel like if a Deity wants to be as strong as the Deity that they once were, it should be done through posting and plotting and regaining their strength IC, gaining followers or whatever."
HI MIL, i was under the assumption that we were doing this already lol. artifacts, followers, whatever floats your boat should be under the "ic justifications" umbrella for making your char a certain rank, i think? which isn't that hard to follow when you earn cash as you rank up, imo
but yeah i think grandfather clause sounds fair. i think it means that erryone gets to keep current ranks but new rules apply for future ranks the char earns? if that's the case, then i'm cool with that
I ALSO AGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT OZY SEZ. im sleep deprived nao don't be judgin
i'm all for majority rule. tbh the main reason why PRE/hidden are my babies is because of the majority rule. i've seen plenty of sites that...aren't so democratic and end up being a less than enjoyable experience.
ahaha yeah i've been on a site where activity=how much you can screw someone else over ic. wasn't fun. wasn't fun at all. rp felt like a job. i get that the most active should be rewarded somehow, but i think that's where the favors system comes in? enough for the active to tip the scales, but not completely dominate.
quality is hard to judge. in which case, those missions will come in handy. new assets should be more easily gained by those creative problem solvers in missions. those who aren't able to be as active ought to get their butts in gear by advancing plot in meaningful ways. those who want to mine cash can do that at their own pace. everyone has a way to catch up, everyone wins.
>>>>>>>S-ranked Human vs. S-ranked FREAKING GOD IS NOT EVEN A CONTEST OMG
THIS
GUYS i like to think that janus' 2700 years of existence means something. he's def going to be more magically experienced, along with whatever other skills he's accumulated.
Edit:
combat prowress is also not necessary imo also because ic justifications are harder. i'm sorry, but a several thousand year old god is going to be WAY more experienced than your 24 year old human/were/whatever that just doesn't look like a thing that you can bridge with ooc assets
EdIT EdIT:
WOW HI SORRY IF I SOUNd CRANKY THEN IT'S BC IT'S LIKE 2AM HERE
Last Edit: Jan 7, 2013 3:15:53 GMT -5 by JANUS VASILOU
Post by mildred bagley-aldaine on Jan 7, 2013 3:38:09 GMT -5
HI MIL, i was under the assumption that we were doing this already lol. artifacts, followers, whatever floats your boat should be under the "ic justifications" umbrella for making your char a certain rank, i think? which isn't that hard to follow when you earn cash as you rank up, imo
Post by THE POWERS THAT BE on Jan 9, 2013 0:32:26 GMT -5
Un-announcing this thread. Thanks for all the feedback!
Me and Tsun will talk over this stuff when I'm done playing P4 and online at the same time. (This is a rarer occurence than you'd think.) I'll post a new announcement whenever we've got a finalized idea sorted out! Odds are it will probably resemble option 1.
HIDDEN in plain sight is a modern-day supernatural noir game set in New York City and sprawling the rest of America. Magic is real, and so are angels, ghosts, gods, vampires, and witches. It doesn't matter if you believe in them, because they're coming for you either way.
( TOSKA ) - Head admin, your go-to for anything HIDDEN related
( MURK ) - Ad mod, resident cutie pie. Keep it in your pants or Toska will cut you.
( VERTIGO ) - takes no math classes.
( TSUNDERE ) - Not actually staff, but has residual staff powers from v4. Feel free to pester with questions.
SPOTLIGHT
HIDDEN's spotlights give kudos to anything awesome. It can be a character, a member, a thread, or even a cool plot!
( SPOTLIGHT ) - Lorem ipsum character stuff goes here.
( SPOTLIGHT ) - Lorem ipsum character stuff goes here.
( SPOTLIGHT ) - Lorem ipsum character stuff goes here.
CREDITS
( ORIGINAL SITE BY KATYA ) - Original site, templates, skin, ideas, and system all by Katya. Other ideas belong to their original owners